Over the course of this week I have had two moments to meet with officers from Campus Atheists, first at a cookout sponsored by my ministry, and second during my weekly time answering questions at the table.
Conversations at both events were quite cordial. Typically, discussion between religions will become emotionally involved, bitter arguments flare, etc. In the cookout case, however, both we and they kept to a level-headed discussion. In the process, I've found that for most discussion topics, talking with an atheist is quite odd because, since an atheist believes there is no God, a number of things one normally talks about with people of other religions are closed, as they have nothing to say. In those cases, the talk consisted of their asking a question about Christianity, and me or one of the other Christians answering the question. I also found out that night that the three officers also happened to be taking the same major as myself. Odds are I will see them again for that reason.
At the table, one of the officers from Campus Atheists came, and showed me a series of clips from the movie Jesus Camp. I'm a person who likes to find motivations behind actions, and in this case, I've been wondering about a number of his questions. Mainly, he asked again and again "Isn't this bad teaching/outrageous/etc.?" On one level, I had to agree with him; I did find a few examples of false teaching and potential extremism from what was shown. That being said, the claims he wanted to make, that the documentary was evidence that Christians are plotting to train an army of sorts, just didn't have a sufficient case built. Maybe that group was, but to apply the dynamics of a small group to a large population doesn't always work.
However, what I began to wonder in that second conversation was whether the movie was in fact the issue. To me, the question that had been forming in the mind of my mind (provoked by the Spirit? perhaps...), was whether the movie was a means of justification: "I can't believe something crazy like that," or "at least I'm not as bad as they are." This is a question I hope to tackle in similar situations, and perhaps with the same man in coming weeks.
Showing posts with label Day to day ministry. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Day to day ministry. Show all posts
Thursday, April 19, 2007
Wednesday, April 4, 2007
Believing in Evolution
Today was one of many days at "the table," an outreach put on by my campus ministry. From time to time I will come across people with particularly interesting questions or statements, and today I'd like to share one of them.
I was discussing the issue of what the relationship between man and God is with someone who had come to the table, and he asked whether or not religion is a set of rules/guidelines. I gave my usual answer to this question, that Christianity is an understanding of how the universe works. He immediately asked, "So... you don't believe in evolution then?"
The conversation continued on, but the question revealed something to me. This thing was a continuing question over what "religion" is; Is it merely a set of rules for people to follow, is it an understanding of how spiritual things work, or is it something else? In addition, the assumption of evolution being science and science being truth is also intertwined in this question, though the scientific method is based around the idea that all claims are falsifiable, meaning science is not truth, but an approximation of it. Further, the idea that evolution means what a handful of militant atheists say it means is another question that is not typically brought up.
The choice of words was also interesting, "believing in evolution." I think that the man had inadvertently made a point I would like to make here; while many people see belief and faith as a "blind faith," I see it in the same sense that a scientist believes a number of physical laws. In other words, when one is trying to understand the world, one's beliefs are the fundamental assumptions made in order to reach an understanding of something new. Beliefs could be about the nature of people, about God, about what you hear on the news, or read in a book. At some point, you have to make decisions about what you are seeing hearing, reading, etc. is true or not, or if there are elements of truth embedded within something false. What you decide is true, and act on, is what you believe.
As always, the experience of a new question and new perspective was refreshing, and helpful in gaining more understanding in how other people see the world. I think it is important to know where people are coming from if you are going to help them in terms of where they are going.
As further questions come up, I will keep you posted.
Michael
I was discussing the issue of what the relationship between man and God is with someone who had come to the table, and he asked whether or not religion is a set of rules/guidelines. I gave my usual answer to this question, that Christianity is an understanding of how the universe works. He immediately asked, "So... you don't believe in evolution then?"
The conversation continued on, but the question revealed something to me. This thing was a continuing question over what "religion" is; Is it merely a set of rules for people to follow, is it an understanding of how spiritual things work, or is it something else? In addition, the assumption of evolution being science and science being truth is also intertwined in this question, though the scientific method is based around the idea that all claims are falsifiable, meaning science is not truth, but an approximation of it. Further, the idea that evolution means what a handful of militant atheists say it means is another question that is not typically brought up.
The choice of words was also interesting, "believing in evolution." I think that the man had inadvertently made a point I would like to make here; while many people see belief and faith as a "blind faith," I see it in the same sense that a scientist believes a number of physical laws. In other words, when one is trying to understand the world, one's beliefs are the fundamental assumptions made in order to reach an understanding of something new. Beliefs could be about the nature of people, about God, about what you hear on the news, or read in a book. At some point, you have to make decisions about what you are seeing hearing, reading, etc. is true or not, or if there are elements of truth embedded within something false. What you decide is true, and act on, is what you believe.
As always, the experience of a new question and new perspective was refreshing, and helpful in gaining more understanding in how other people see the world. I think it is important to know where people are coming from if you are going to help them in terms of where they are going.
As further questions come up, I will keep you posted.
Michael
Saturday, March 24, 2007
Interministry Initiatives - Part 2
Georgia Tech's Interministry initiative is moving forward, but the first stumbling blocks have come along.
First and foremost, people are dropping their support. while the first meeting had too many people, going from 40 to 6 made a big difference in terms of what can be done. The good thing is that those 6, myself included, do not look like they will be leaving in the short term.
In addition, the next great challenge is, what are we going to do? Currently, there is a worship service. The question I have to ask is... what will make this one different from the others that exist already? Will it be that people from multiple ministries show up? Will this really cause mixing? This is our greatest challenge, and the point of the initiative; how do we get the ministries to communicate?
My idea on the matter is to start having moderated debates or discussions, and let students see what the other ministries are teaching. If all can keep a level head and love for their brotyers in Christ, it could work. If not, then the current momentum for a new worship service will be our other ticket. As the spring semester is in its final month at Georgia Tech, we will see this initiative's future very soon. My hope is, no matter what happens, that we will see action.
First and foremost, people are dropping their support. while the first meeting had too many people, going from 40 to 6 made a big difference in terms of what can be done. The good thing is that those 6, myself included, do not look like they will be leaving in the short term.
In addition, the next great challenge is, what are we going to do? Currently, there is a worship service. The question I have to ask is... what will make this one different from the others that exist already? Will it be that people from multiple ministries show up? Will this really cause mixing? This is our greatest challenge, and the point of the initiative; how do we get the ministries to communicate?
My idea on the matter is to start having moderated debates or discussions, and let students see what the other ministries are teaching. If all can keep a level head and love for their brotyers in Christ, it could work. If not, then the current momentum for a new worship service will be our other ticket. As the spring semester is in its final month at Georgia Tech, we will see this initiative's future very soon. My hope is, no matter what happens, that we will see action.
Thursday, February 22, 2007
Interministry Initiatives
Recently, a member of the Baptist ministry at my school proposed an interministry program in hopes of uniting the campus ministries, so that we become a significant force on the campus. The plan: begin with a meeting to get ideas. So that other students who haven't seen these initiatives can get an idea of what happens with interministry stuff, I'd like to relay the details of the meeting, and the challenges that face these initiatives.
First, the challenges. First and foremost, each ministry has its own way of doing things, and often its own doctrine (especially in the case of denominational ministries). They also have their own interests, so contact with other ministries often leads to either 1) conflict or 2) competition. Also, since each ministry typically has a paid campus minister, it is common for said minister to have to put his ministry ahead of others, since he must report to those paying him what he has done with it. While the man in charge of the presentation said "it's because God just happened to call them to different paths," I take a more realist view. It's not that being paid is bad, it's just that doing ministry as a job will sometimes create a conflict of interest between that ministry and that job, and you have to watch out for it.
If the challenges can be overcome, the tangible benefits are the ability to specialize ministry (i.e. become a literal "part" of the body of Christ), and the ability to coordinate events with other ministries, which can help when it comes to placing people in events, and avoiding copycatting on particular days. Intangible benefits include an opportunity to build up one's brothers, and to talk to others outside of a particular school of thought. This would lead to greater unity and brotherhood among all believers.
For the meeting, I noted the following:
First, there was the sales pitch. It was a long (~20 minutes or so) speech by the man from the Baptist group, mostly detailing how he thought of the idea and what he thought it would entail. Mainly, there was no statement of "let's do this particular thing;" the goal was to gather ideas. In any case, I strongly respect the man for acting, and for putting the meeting together, since no one else has gone this far.
Next came suggestions on the general spirit of the initiative. It is an important question, because if we don't decide where it is we are going, each group within the larger group will make a decision, and we will suddenly find that the ministries will still be fighting each other, and each claiming to be acting in the best interests of the interministry initiative. While a number of ideas about what would be good were given, no one really pointed out the big pink elephant in the room; people are going to disagree, and we have to handle it somehow. The man in charge touched on it lightly, but gave a relativist view; we needed to "accept" what everyone says. Having a level of tolerance does help prevent fights, but there comes a point when too much tolerance waters down any serious discussion of Scripture. It is this watering down that has caused me to distance myself from most campus ministries, therefore I will privately discuss the matter with him later. For some reason, confronting serious issues will go over better in one-on-one environments.
Suggestions were also taken on what to "do." This is, in my opinion, the second most important question next to "what are we trying to accomplish in this ministry?" It was... unsurprising that there weren't as many ideas for action as there were for the general spirit of the ministry. Still, a few were taken, namely shared prayer between the services and a website designed to improve communication between ministries. If they make it to implementation, and everyone agrees to act continually, then we could see some communication and a new kind of brotherhood come out of this initiative.
This will be something to report on in the coming months. Until next time... take care,
Michael
First, the challenges. First and foremost, each ministry has its own way of doing things, and often its own doctrine (especially in the case of denominational ministries). They also have their own interests, so contact with other ministries often leads to either 1) conflict or 2) competition. Also, since each ministry typically has a paid campus minister, it is common for said minister to have to put his ministry ahead of others, since he must report to those paying him what he has done with it. While the man in charge of the presentation said "it's because God just happened to call them to different paths," I take a more realist view. It's not that being paid is bad, it's just that doing ministry as a job will sometimes create a conflict of interest between that ministry and that job, and you have to watch out for it.
If the challenges can be overcome, the tangible benefits are the ability to specialize ministry (i.e. become a literal "part" of the body of Christ), and the ability to coordinate events with other ministries, which can help when it comes to placing people in events, and avoiding copycatting on particular days. Intangible benefits include an opportunity to build up one's brothers, and to talk to others outside of a particular school of thought. This would lead to greater unity and brotherhood among all believers.
For the meeting, I noted the following:
First, there was the sales pitch. It was a long (~20 minutes or so) speech by the man from the Baptist group, mostly detailing how he thought of the idea and what he thought it would entail. Mainly, there was no statement of "let's do this particular thing;" the goal was to gather ideas. In any case, I strongly respect the man for acting, and for putting the meeting together, since no one else has gone this far.
Next came suggestions on the general spirit of the initiative. It is an important question, because if we don't decide where it is we are going, each group within the larger group will make a decision, and we will suddenly find that the ministries will still be fighting each other, and each claiming to be acting in the best interests of the interministry initiative. While a number of ideas about what would be good were given, no one really pointed out the big pink elephant in the room; people are going to disagree, and we have to handle it somehow. The man in charge touched on it lightly, but gave a relativist view; we needed to "accept" what everyone says. Having a level of tolerance does help prevent fights, but there comes a point when too much tolerance waters down any serious discussion of Scripture. It is this watering down that has caused me to distance myself from most campus ministries, therefore I will privately discuss the matter with him later. For some reason, confronting serious issues will go over better in one-on-one environments.
Suggestions were also taken on what to "do." This is, in my opinion, the second most important question next to "what are we trying to accomplish in this ministry?" It was... unsurprising that there weren't as many ideas for action as there were for the general spirit of the ministry. Still, a few were taken, namely shared prayer between the services and a website designed to improve communication between ministries. If they make it to implementation, and everyone agrees to act continually, then we could see some communication and a new kind of brotherhood come out of this initiative.
This will be something to report on in the coming months. Until next time... take care,
Michael
Thursday, February 15, 2007
The table
My campus ministry sets up a table four days a week inside the school's student center, with a simple sign that reads "Come ask us about the Bible." As far as different kinds of ministry go, I've enjoyed this one the most.
The main challenge of the table is that you can be asked anything, by anyone, with any intention. You don't know why the person is asking or what the ensuing conversation will be, so after a few questions, you learn to think on your toes. It also proves to be a challenge in terms of how much you know; there is no real way to be prepared for every question. To that end, I am going to tell you about a few of the questions and scenarios you will see when people ask questions. it might help those who are trying to find what spiritual questions are on the average man's mind.
The most common people you will see are other Christians who aren't there to ask questions. Usually, they'll either be there to say, "I'm glad that you're doing this!" There are also a few Christians who will tell you how to do what you are doing. In the latter case, I say that such people are free to do it their way. In the former case, it's great to be encouraged.
Next most common are still Christians who want to ask questions, or people who likely grew up in Church but drifted away at a later date. Oftentimes they will have a question about doctrine, or about pseudo-Christian writings such as the Apocrypha or books put out by the Jehovah's Witnesses or the Mormons. There have also been those who were told one thing while the Bible says something else, and simply want validation for something they've been suspicious of. In these cases, you must keep in mind that they are seeking your help to better understand the Bible, and they may not look into the matter after they leave. You could set up a ministry just for such people, and in the case of my ministry, these are the main people we're reaching to.
After these, there are hecklers. Typically, an atheist or agnostic will be somewhat offended by your very presence, and will let you know as much. This is where you can get into a situation in which the person will deliberately ask irrational questions or talk too quickly in order to throw you off. Like the people in the previous paragraph, these people are looking to clarify or validate something, but in this case, they are validating unbelief, and will do so with hostility. One challenge I've seen is the level to which hecklers make faulty assumptions. For that reason, it'd be good to understand the doctrine you believe in, because you will likely find yourself saying "No, the Bible doesn't say that" or "No, that's not the way we see things" quite often. Being able to turn such discussions around and presenting information the heckler likely hasn't seen before will either result in their pausing to think about what hey are saying, or simply walking off, knowing they can't control the conversation. Don't worry if this happens, there's only so much you can do, and if you've done it right, then you've done your job.
Least common, meaning I've never seen one, is the person who is largely unfamiliar with the Bible and wants to get to know more about it. It's surprising, but since I am going to an American school, it would make sense that most people have some idea about Christianity, even if the ideas are skewed.
As far as numbers and encounters go... I usually see one or two people an hour at the table. If two people come, the odds of a third and fourth standing behind the first two and watching are fairly high. It's easy to draw crowds when the first ones come. Usually however, people will look at you as they walk by, and look away. There are some dynamics when other groups come around; when the campus atheists set up a table next to us (spontaneously), we got a dozen comments on "you're next to the atheists, was this arranged?" Most of the questions I see begin with an assumption, which isn't always true. My favorite one, from a man who came to heckle, began by saying, "well you know, you can't really know everything that you believe is true, so how can you have faith?" It's the notion that faith must be blind. We also get a lot of questions about Biblical history as well, with questions about extra-biblical literature, translations, and figures from church history. A lot of questions also revolve around where the Bible stands on one issue or another. While there are a number where the Bible takes a very clear stand, there are a few political issues where extrapolating from Joshua 5:13-14 is your best bet. These things typically are not things that you usually discuss in Bible study, but people want to know about them, so it'd be worth looking into a few of these topics if you'd like to engage in this type of ministry.
Is it fun? I'd say so. One thing I will say, of course, is that it truly is a stretch of the mind, so be sure to pray before starting. And, of course, be ready to take names. The harvest is indeed plentiful, there are many people who are looking for someone to talk to about faith, if you are willing to put yourself out there.
As time goes on, I will update this section (Day to day ministry) with questions of interest that come from people I meet, along with the things that arise from my other ministry, being an education director at a local church.
Take care,
Michael
The main challenge of the table is that you can be asked anything, by anyone, with any intention. You don't know why the person is asking or what the ensuing conversation will be, so after a few questions, you learn to think on your toes. It also proves to be a challenge in terms of how much you know; there is no real way to be prepared for every question. To that end, I am going to tell you about a few of the questions and scenarios you will see when people ask questions. it might help those who are trying to find what spiritual questions are on the average man's mind.
The most common people you will see are other Christians who aren't there to ask questions. Usually, they'll either be there to say, "I'm glad that you're doing this!" There are also a few Christians who will tell you how to do what you are doing. In the latter case, I say that such people are free to do it their way. In the former case, it's great to be encouraged.
Next most common are still Christians who want to ask questions, or people who likely grew up in Church but drifted away at a later date. Oftentimes they will have a question about doctrine, or about pseudo-Christian writings such as the Apocrypha or books put out by the Jehovah's Witnesses or the Mormons. There have also been those who were told one thing while the Bible says something else, and simply want validation for something they've been suspicious of. In these cases, you must keep in mind that they are seeking your help to better understand the Bible, and they may not look into the matter after they leave. You could set up a ministry just for such people, and in the case of my ministry, these are the main people we're reaching to.
After these, there are hecklers. Typically, an atheist or agnostic will be somewhat offended by your very presence, and will let you know as much. This is where you can get into a situation in which the person will deliberately ask irrational questions or talk too quickly in order to throw you off. Like the people in the previous paragraph, these people are looking to clarify or validate something, but in this case, they are validating unbelief, and will do so with hostility. One challenge I've seen is the level to which hecklers make faulty assumptions. For that reason, it'd be good to understand the doctrine you believe in, because you will likely find yourself saying "No, the Bible doesn't say that" or "No, that's not the way we see things" quite often. Being able to turn such discussions around and presenting information the heckler likely hasn't seen before will either result in their pausing to think about what hey are saying, or simply walking off, knowing they can't control the conversation. Don't worry if this happens, there's only so much you can do, and if you've done it right, then you've done your job.
Least common, meaning I've never seen one, is the person who is largely unfamiliar with the Bible and wants to get to know more about it. It's surprising, but since I am going to an American school, it would make sense that most people have some idea about Christianity, even if the ideas are skewed.
As far as numbers and encounters go... I usually see one or two people an hour at the table. If two people come, the odds of a third and fourth standing behind the first two and watching are fairly high. It's easy to draw crowds when the first ones come. Usually however, people will look at you as they walk by, and look away. There are some dynamics when other groups come around; when the campus atheists set up a table next to us (spontaneously), we got a dozen comments on "you're next to the atheists, was this arranged?" Most of the questions I see begin with an assumption, which isn't always true. My favorite one, from a man who came to heckle, began by saying, "well you know, you can't really know everything that you believe is true, so how can you have faith?" It's the notion that faith must be blind. We also get a lot of questions about Biblical history as well, with questions about extra-biblical literature, translations, and figures from church history. A lot of questions also revolve around where the Bible stands on one issue or another. While there are a number where the Bible takes a very clear stand, there are a few political issues where extrapolating from Joshua 5:13-14 is your best bet. These things typically are not things that you usually discuss in Bible study, but people want to know about them, so it'd be worth looking into a few of these topics if you'd like to engage in this type of ministry.
Is it fun? I'd say so. One thing I will say, of course, is that it truly is a stretch of the mind, so be sure to pray before starting. And, of course, be ready to take names. The harvest is indeed plentiful, there are many people who are looking for someone to talk to about faith, if you are willing to put yourself out there.
As time goes on, I will update this section (Day to day ministry) with questions of interest that come from people I meet, along with the things that arise from my other ministry, being an education director at a local church.
Take care,
Michael
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